3 replies to this topic

[Vic]

Hi Girls & Guys,

Contact information for the 1ST supplier:

Karr Rubber Mfg.:

John
133 Lomita Street
El Segundo, CA 90245-4114
(310) 322-1993
(800) 955-5277

Prices as of February 2008:

Vent Window Seals (Pair: Means Left and Right Doors): $225
Pop-Out Window Seals (Set: Means One window, 'Y' and 'U'. Does not include the one that attaches it to the body): 'Y' & 'U'=$210

Instructions for the KARR Rubber Seals:

There are two different (shaped) extrusions for each window. The "U-Channel" fits inside the frame inner slot which holds the glass in place and the larger extrusion, with a "T-Shape" ("Y") cross-section is inserted into the outer slot on the frame.

Each shapedrubber extrusion is longer on the ends than needed, so the installer can cut the butt ends to the proper length and join/bond them with a Cyanoacrylate-type glue such as Crazy Glue. Loctite 406 is the type Karr Rubber Mfg. uses to join windshield seals and similar rubber products (used on the Vent Window seals) and Loctite 712 to cure.

When the installer has determined where the cuts need to be made to the seals, as to butt ends, it is recommended you use a fresh, single-edge razor blade to provide a clean cut (You may with to lubricate the blade with vasoline to permit the blade to cut smoothly through the rubber).

To insert the rubber more easily into each slot, the installer may elect to rub the rubber with vasoline or a silicone oil (spray can type) to make insertion into the slot easier.

Bonding the seal ends together:

When I asked John at KARR how I should cut the gasket and how to glue it, he showed me how to do it with two pieces of a rubber seal. He glued two pieces of rubber together with the Loctite 406 and Loctite 712 Cure. With in seconds, it was bonded and I could not pull it apart. So it looks like the Loctite bonds nicely.

On cutting the gasket:

John told me not to cut it short (DO NOT CUT THE SEAL TO SHORT). If you cut it short, you will have to stretch the seal (to bond the two ends together) and the seal will crack as it ages. It will not crack at the bonded joint, the seal material will crack. Remember, all rubber seals will shrink over time.

If John of Karr had made it into a closed loop on the wood mold, he would use Loctite 406 and Loctite 712 to bond the two ends together. So instead of John of Karr bonding it with Loctite, we will just have to do the bonding ourselves with Loctite.

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Contact information for the 2ND supplier:

This was posted by Greg:
For all you guys who have been looking for this stuff; here is the business that might still have it. "Arrow Glass" The guy to ask for is Gary Arrow the owner. His business phone number is: (360) 533-4151. A friend of Gary is a rubbers manufacture in Portland, OR. This guy years ago bought up some of Ford's obsolete rubber extruding dies and one of them is the flip window dies for the Mids; this is the stuff that goes around the outer edge of them. The stuff is $3.45 a foot, which works out to be $20.70 per window. It takes six feet to do each window............... Greg.............. P.S. For all I know the last time this guy laid up these dies was to make me fifty feet of the stuff about three years ago. Gary Arrow spent quit a bit of time finding the right stuff and it turned out that it was a friend of his that had these dies. since there were alot of you wanting this stuff I would get it while you can. When I called Gary I was surprised whey he said that he could still get it. P.S. If he can still get the stuff the prices might be higher now as oil has gone through the roof...........Greg
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Note: No extras seals were made or purchased.

Vic

[Don]

A-Hole Rubber Manufacturing (KARR).
No other words needed.

[Roger]

.. I guess I shouldn't be laughing at this.. I'd really like to strangle the guy.

[John Sheedy]

Jeff had sent me a PM about this issue and I just wanted to post my answer to him here incase any future questions come up. John

Hi Jeff,
The Pop out window seals were purchased from Karr Rubber products out of California. I and Vic worked together to arrange the purchase of a group buy on these seals from John at Karr. John at Karr is an idiot and not someone I would want to do business again with. There has also been some issues with short and long term quality of the products he has made for us as well. John has the molds to make pop out seals and the vent window seals for the doors. Two of the members here on the board sent John samples to make those molds as well as paying him a lot of money to him to produce the molds. You don't have to wait for another group buy to purchase these seals from him as we got no deal on the group buy. His contact info is listed on the board under suppliers but you may want to post a few questions on the board about quaility, pricing and so on before making any attempt to contact him about purchasing. There are also a few different threads on the board about the seals you may want to look thru as well.

My first problem with John at Karr was he quoted us a price to purchase vent seals and pop out seals, it took me and Vic a couple of months to get everyone together that wanted them and send us there money. When we went to purchase them John at Karr changed the pricing bigtime as it almost doubled in cost. We also had members who purchased some of these seals directly from Karr before our group purchase and complained about seals that were thin in spots and had some fit issues. One member purchased a set of vent window seals over a year ago was complaining about UV issues on the rubber as it was already drying out and getting hard.

Karr Rubber products is not the answer to long term rubber issues on these vans. The problem is (and I have stated this before on the board) there is not enough volume out there for rubber products on these vans to have one of the real reproduction companies make them. So you are stuck dealing with idiots like John at Karr and dealing with a buyer beware issue. If I can help you out anyother way just let me know. John