228 replies to this topic

[John Sheedy]

Here is a though for everyone to think over that has a 68-74 van. Find someone here that has a project van or want to go to a yard and cut the front end off a donor van that is willing to work with the rest of the group and every one agrees to it. Start a fund based on producing your own kit by using a local or national machine shop to produce the parts need to make the kit and place them on the project van to make sure it works along with any aftermarket parts used. Make a list of the aftermarket and machined products used and product your own kit to sell or sell the design off to an aftermarket company to produce. Use your profits from selling off the design or selling the kits to fund another project like having weather stripping made!!! Based on the lack of interest from aftermarket companies to produce these items this maybe a way to get things to happen. Its something to think about and talk about if you can get together and make it happen. John

[EcumSecumGuy]

I've got the test front end!

[Banned]

Hello John,
Nice sugestion. BUT which system do we need the most?
E100? E200? E300?
I think that is the BIG brick wall that the aftermarket faces when considering the front disk brakes for our Econolines.
For myself, My E300 with power brakes. I think my brakes are fine.
I can lock my brakes in a panic stop! So the coefiecient of drag on my tires is the BIG demon.
As for my E100 Party van. NO P/B. The pedal is hard to push and I do not trust the brakes to stop me as well as my E300. So I just drive with more caution and leave more room to stop.
Everyone is spoiled by the NEW brakes found on the late model viehicles.
My vote is for the E100 disc brakes.
There are companys that already make a kit for the 68-74 F100.
They are around 1000.00
Just my 2cents!
From Pintony

[Roger]

I'd be all for contributing to getting the brake conversion thing taken care of. But I don't understand why a company can't just make a caliper bracket that would bolt to our spindles. Seems most all companies want to sell you a kit. That's fine for those that don't have a problem spending close to a grand to upgrade, but I don't think it's necessary. If we had a custom bracket, and knew what bearings could be used to mount the truck rotor on the van spindle, that would solve a lot of it.. Or would it??

The only problem I see with doing something like this, is liability.

As for the weatherstripping,,, we have 130 registered members here now. A majority of which are 68-74 owners. Each and every owner should call Dennis Carpenter and ask them about weatherstripping for the 68-74s. Even if you don't need it right now.

704-786-8139

[John Sheedy]

Roger,
Being in the parts business I see things a little different then most. The reason why a bracket may not work is because of the difference in how drum and disc brakes work. In most cases were applications changed from drum to disc brakes bearings got larger, angles changed and items needed a different way to support the brake assembly. A bracket change by itself will not fix all of these problems.

This project needs to start from the vary core of the issue, the straight front axles. Randy (and I forgot about the platform he has) has a great test platform to use when he stripped that E200 van and held on to the whole front-end assembly. (Randy you need to repost that pic of it) Pintony posted a difference between E100 and E200 series but that is only true of the drum brake sizes used on the 2 series. Everything behind the drums is the same on both models and considering you are making that part of the system go away it’s not an issue. Also if the conversion replaces the axles the E300 series could also be added to the conversion.

The next thing to get would be axles from the 73-79 F-series pickups with the disc brakes attached. I would bolt them into the test platform and check to see how the tire would fit in the wheel well. (Side to side / top to bottom / inside to outside)
The axles from the pickup use the same part numbers to mount at the pivot point and at the Radius arm connection so there should be no problems there. The issue will be how the tire fits inside the wheel well. Also if this works there will be no liability issues as these are already DOT approved parts. The last issue at this point will be connecting the tie rod ends from the van steering to the pickup spindles. Here is were a tie rod end from a different model application may work or a bracket maybe need to make it come together. It may also require swapping the spindles to the opposite side of the truck to get the tie rod connection to the front or rear of the application as needed. Also at this point you could also consider looking into adapting a rack steering system to get rid of that ridicules steering geometry Ford used on these vans.

If the axles from the F-Series don’t work out then you are looking to produce new ones that have the correct connections to mount, the right length to make the tire fit and the correct king pin sizes to use a current disc brake setup. I am betting the axles do work and the issue is going to be the spindle and how you need to attach the tie rod ends.

At this point I would at least fund the project to this level to see were your next turn needs to go. John

[Roger]

That's understandable about the bracket.. I've just seen kits where all that was involved was a custom bracket and a caliper as the main parts. Who knows..

I agree with you about trying the truck spindle. I would certainly be curious to know if the van and truck i-beams are the same. They do both have a truck prefix in the part number... Same goes for the radius arms. It would be nice to know that you didn't have to use the axle from the truck. Just in case you happen to find a possible donor truck for the spindles, only to find that the beams that they're attached to need to be straightened before using them. Maybe rare, but certainly possible.

[e.wayne]

Like all you fellas, I've been giving this some thought. I had kind of come to the same conclusion that Roger had. It's not that I doubt you John. But I'm not sure I understand why the caliper bracket idea won't work. The stopping force on our drum brakes is transferred to the backing plates correct? Then if we made a caliper bracket that bolted to the old backing plate holes, how would it be different? I thought the issue would be the backspacing.

I have access to a local shop that cuts out plate designs with a water jet. I think we should explore all this stuff. I was thinking along your lines though, John. I thought I might do it up in autocad so I could get it reliably duplicated and sell it to you guys, that were interested. But if you truly think that the bracket idea is unsound I don't want to waste my time and money. If you think it might work, do you have any idea what rotor might fit our spindles as is? I think that is where I would start.

E. Wayne

[John Sheedy]

Ok,
Here is the first thing to go over. The F-series pickup axles have to be used because the E-series king pins sizes will not work with the F-series spindles. The bracket idea may or may not have merit but the problem you run into is the rotor position. Even if the rotor uses the same bearing number as the drum it may ride differently on the spindle. It could ride to close to the backing plate to allow a bracket or even a caliper. Also rotors weight more than drums and that is why bearing sizes changed to larger or different units to make up for heat, weight and to position the rotor correctly on the spindle. Drum spindles may not have the correct taper or be heavy enough to handle running a rotor on them even if the bearing position does work out. Besides if the F-series stuff works why engineer something you don't have to for something that works and is DOT approved! I would not attempt to make any brackets until you confirm the F-series parts and there fit.
Roger allot of the kits you are thinking about that use a bracket to change from drum to disc are cars or trucks were they were built factory with a drum or disc brake option and the spindles were close enough to do this. The 68-74 E100 or E200 never had that option and nether did the 61-67 models. The option never happened until the 75-model year and the van totally changed. Unlike a Chevy nova that started in 62 and was basically the same car in the 70's when disc brakes came around making a conversion easy. Again go with what is already around an in use, try the pickup stuff before making any leaps forward in making any products. John

[Brian]

You can count me in! I'm just worried about what we'll all talk about if this disk brake issue is finally resolved
Rodger, I'm calling Dennis tommorow! What time zone is he in?

[Roger]

John,
Not to beat a dead horse here,,,, but I thought I remembered the king pins for the vans and pickups being extremely close in diameter. I know the pickup ones are longer, but couldn't that be because of the difference in the spindle?..

[Roger]

I believe Dennis Carpenter is in the Eastern time zone.

[e.wayne]

Well put John.

I would love to bolt on some OEM parts. I will wait. I am willing to help with the test model to if I can.

Whew, we got to do something. Look how worked up we are all getting. We all just want to stop. Is that so wrong?

E. Wayne

[John Sheedy]

Roger, No your not beating a dead horse.

1968 to 1971 E100 / E200 Kin pin number is 8559B (.8592" x 5.923")
1972 to 1974 E100 / E200 Kin pin number is 8523B (.8593" x 6.073")

1966 to 1974 F100 / F150 Kin pin number is 8524B (.8592" x 6.353")
1975 to 1979 F100 / F150 Kin pin number is 8540B (.8593" x 6.483")

Based on the numbers they are close and probably workable but my feeling would be to look for the 75-79 F-series truck setup to have the best chance of finding the disc brakes. Place the axles and spindles from this setup into your test platform and if it works you don't have to modify anything. If the axles are to long then you can spend some time with your local machine shop to adapt the correct king pins and F-series spindles on to your old E-series axles.

Also if the pickup axles are not right and you have to modify the E-series axles to work with the pickup spindles I would not do any modifications until you figure how to attach the steering.

Also as mentioned before this would be a good time to look into getting rid of the steering linkage you now have in favor of a rack. It would make hooking onto the spindles a lot easier and get rid of the terrible steering linage these trucks have. It would also get rid of the steering box on the frame that in some cases is a problem with rotting frame rails and make the trucks a whole lot more fun to drive. It would require welding in a mounting surface for the rack and extending the steering shaft with a couple of universal joints.

My whole purpose for starting this thread was to bring to light that financing your own projects for Disc brakes and weather stripping and other needs will get you a lot futher and faster down the line than waiting for a company to do it for you. Your ranks are loyal but there are to few of you to be heard over the F-series truck, Mustangs, Camaros and dozens of other makes to get any action anytime soon. Companies would be stepping over millions of customer to support the thousands of you and with the dollar driving business that will never happen.

There is a very good group of people on this board with varies skills and connections. I think its more than possible to do its just how bad do you want it and who is willing to step up to help out when needed.

Do the simple things first by using the factory stuff that is already out there. Spend little money and no modifications until you have eliminated the F-series pickup parts as working or not working. Make notes, draw pictures, take pics and document what you are doing in steps to help keep track of the project.

If it works you will be winners and if it does not you will have a better idea of what it takes to get there. John

[tha83]

I just posted something about this last week. I was asking for advice on a swap over. I have power assisted brakes on a E-330. I know my brakes are beefier than the 100 or 200 series but I also have a hot rod small block in it and want to stop better. I'll hold off on doing anything If you guys are gonna figure something out. I'd be will in to chip in a little to get the right answer and hell I'd off er my van as an example. I live in Venice, Ca. If some on e wants to take charge of this that would be great. Maybe we can exchange numberas and talk about this one the phone. The link I checked said that 74 f-250 parts would swap over.

[Roger]

tha83,
Just so we're not confusing everyone,,, the article that you read about using the F-250 parts for the swap does work. But it only works for the 1 ton vans like yours. The F-250s (at least the dual piston brakes) have a removable caliper bracket.

To do the swap to discs on the E-100/200 vans, we would have to use parts from the F-150s if we wanted to keep the 5 lug wheels. The probelm is, the caliper bracket is part of the spindle on the 150s. For your van, you can just follow the article, and you're all set.