85 E-150 4 speed 4.9 TFI IV
The motor will start in the morning (or after sitting for 3~6 hours) idle perfect for 15 sec to 5 min then die (just like the key was turned off). It will not start up again because there is no spark. My son replaced the coil, plugs, wires, cap and rotor and then called for help. This is the TFI IV distributor with the ignition control module on the side of the distributor with a 6 wire plug.
I am getting voltage to the + side of the coil during the run and start positions on the ignition key, but no spark.
The next parts to throw at it is the module and the pickup. I hate throwing parts at it without testing for bad components.
Someone also stated that the distributor must be pulled and disassembled in order to install the new pick-up.
I know people don't like the TFI system but this one has been running for 22 years and 160K without a problem.
Any suggestions would be helpful.
Jim

Hey there Jim, welcome aboard...
You know something ain't right when you do a web search on "TFI IV", and the first link that comes up is this one:
http://www.tfisettlementsupplemental.com/notice.html


Just a little snip-it that seems to apply to your situation:
"The plaintiffs alleged that TFI module failure is more likely to occur in conditions that cause the TFI module to become overheated, such as in hot weather and while the vehicle’s engine is under load (such as while towing or while driving up a grade) or while idling for extended periods. The plaintiffs also alleged that TFI module failure frequently occurs on an intermittent basis; that is, the module will fail while hot, and then recover and continue functioning after it cools."

I don't know why the page below showed up when I searched on "TFI IV",, because I don't see that entire term on the page. Just "TFI". It seems to have a pretty in depth testing procedure the that module,, but I don't know if it would apply to the one on your van. Here's the link anyway.
http://www.therangerstation.com/tech_libra...Diagnostic.html

I also read on one site, that some auto parts stores can test your old module for you.

Sorry I can't offer any real help.

The TFI module has been a problem mainly because of were Ford Located it on the side of the Dist. What ever hair brained engineer that came up with this mounting location should be forced to go back to school and work with his hands before designing anything! The problem is Heat, and with the module located on the dist. it does not get enough air flow or have a way of getting rid of heat. On some applications Ford attached a harness to the module and relocated it off the dist. to fix the problem. The pickup is less likely the problem and considering you already replaced the coil I would put a module on it. Testing the module cold you will not find a problem with it as it needs to heat up a little to fail so taking it out of the van and having it bench tested is not a good test for it. When you get a new module and are installing it make sure you use the dielectic grease they should give you on the contact surface when installing. This helps in the heat department to get rid of it better than a dry surface. Also go for a better brand module OEM Motorcraft or a good name brand aftermarket. Getting a bargain brand may cause you to be right back to this problem again in no time. John

OK, so I am going to put in a new Control module and might as well do the pick-up at the same time.
I marked and pulled the distributor, looks like there is one pin to drive out just above the gear, then it should come apart for access to the pick-up .... right?

Also, the Control Module that is on it is a Standard Motor Parts Unit, I assume this is not the Original Part or it would be a Motocraft....right?

The local parts shop has Niehoff replacement parts. Is this considered an acceptable aftermarket Brand?

Thanks,
Jim

I think you're right about it just being that roll pin that needs to be driven out. I've never done what you're doing with the pickup change, but I think that's all there is to removing the distributor shaft.

As for the aftermarket brands,, I think this MAY be one time when the dealer part is not better than a quality aftermarket part. I'd have to re-read that link that I posted (the lawsuit one),, but I believe there was a part in there about the quality of the Ford part being being suspect.

I feel your pain Jim. I've been goofing around with trying to fix the erratic idle on my 89,, and it seems I'm just chasing my tail.

Jim, The roll pin above the gear is what hold the gear to the shaft. Once you get that out and the gear off, the shaft should pull up thru the housing. Be careful pushing out the roll pin so you don't damage the gear. Also the gear can still be stuck on the shaft after you get the pin out and may require some solvent soaking to loosen it up. If for some reason you damage or break the gear most good parts stores have replacement ones in there HELP / Motormite / Dorman line.

I have used Standard Motor Products for years and find them to be one of the better aftermarket companies, they use to have a 5 year 50,000 mile warrenty on there modules if you have a receipt. I have never used the Niehoff brand myself but was under the impression it was a cheaper line of electrical products. With all the different companies taking over each other this may not be the case any more. Just make sure to use the heat sink grease they give you when putting the new one back on the dist. Also have you looked at the bolts or screws holding the module onto the dist? They can be an odd fractional size or tamper proof torx fastener so make sure you have the right tools to get it off and back on. John

Back at square one.
During the many tests that I have performed I have digressed from start & run for 5 min then die (no spark) to no spark/no start.
I have gone thru the Service manual's 10 step Preliminary Checkout which tests Ignition coil EEC-IV- TFI-IV, wiring harness, distributor, etc. All tests passed except for the ones that pointed toward maybe a dead ICM or PIP.
I have replaced TFI (ICM) module and PIP (pick up)...... and still have no spark.
The only unusual thing is with a spark tester installed on the top of the coil I will get 1 spark when I hit the start position, no spark during cranking and 1 weak spark when the key is released. Voltage is present at the + coil terminal during cranking. I have used a remote starter with the key in 'run' with the same results, trying to eliminate a possible ignition switch problem.

Tomorrow I will go thru the basic tests again with the new ICM & PIP installed and look for clues. If you have any suggestions ....I will try anything.
I scanned it and the only code which shows is #13 .....idle speed kicker.
Jim

Jim,
Off the wall things to check. Do you have a wire harness connector going bad that goes away when it warms up? Have you checked the ignition side of the starting soleniod (The "I" terminal) to see if the power is going away there. Ford did have a problem with starter soleniods back in those days. Ground wires are the all there, clean and making good connections? Just some ideas to look thru. John

I don't think my van has a "I" terminal, only an "S". Yesterday I cleaned every battery/ solenoid/ ground connection I could find, pulled the connection at the EEC (it looked perfect). I found a 24 point resistance check for the control module, removed the new unit and it checked out OK. For reference I checked my old Control module and it failed. Maybe (?) the new PIP I installed is bad. I will pull the distributor again (not hard to do after the first time, the worst part is getting the lock down bolt started) and throw my old PIP back in and see what happens.

This system is fairly basic but is there anything else that would cut off the ignition that I am missing? Fuel pressure? something else ,some place, that I haven't looked at.

Thanks,
Jim

I wish I knew more about this stuff, since it would certainly help both of us out here. There is a relay in there somewhere called an EEC relay. From most of the things I've read, it usually effects fuel when that relay goes bad, but have also read that it can cause a no spark problem.

I don't think I have a EEC Relay, that is only on the Fuel Injected motors. Let me know if I am wrong, or something else that might turn off the spark.
Thanks for the suggestion.
Jim

Jim,
Just an off the wall question, Is your dist rotor turning when you crank? We have been talking about a power problem but maybe it a mechanical problem if the rotor is not turning. Straight six use a gear to gear setup on the timing and one is metal and the other is plastic. The plastic gear can fail without warning. Just wondering, John

Jim, I know you mentioned that you tried a remote starter,,, but I've had some odd things happen when the ignition switch on the column tube loosens up and slips. I've never had the engine shut off on me after it was running though.

When you start the van, does it seem like you have to turn the key really far before the engine turns over?.

Jim

I don't know if your van has a computer or not, but if it does, There is a little trick I learned with my first EFI 86 E-150. Turn your headlights on then pull your Positive battery cable and wait for about 15 minutes, Turn your headlights off and put your clean battery cable back on your CLEAN Battery Post. Can't stress enough how much difference a clean connection on both battery cables and post can make. Then try starting your engine, If it starts up let it run a little to warm up and take it for a little drive trying to make all speeds up to at least 60. This just might solve your problem. I had a problem sort of like yours and this process solved it. Mine would start and run very poorly until it just died. A mechanic at the local Harley Shop told me about it. He used to
work for a Ford dealer. Worth a try, and what have you got to loose.

Ron

Thanks for the suggestions, I will try anything, will do the headlight/ + battery terminal thing tomorrow (thanks, rls302s).
also (John) the rotor is spinning
and (Roger) you may have a valid point

Had a little time to work on it today and since it won't spark at all, I started all over again. Now it looks like I am not getting any power on the start (H3 or Terminal #4....... depending on which book you look at), anyway it's the 4th up from the bottom on the Ignition Module Connector. This should have 90% battery voltage with the key in the start position and now I have 0. According to the book this could be a broken wire or bad ignition switch. Got 3 service manuals but no wiring diagram. The wire should be heading toward the ignition switch ... will check it out.

...just took a look at the book and it not what I expected for an ignition switch, looks like there could be room for error and adjustment between the key cylinder, tube and switch. Will check it out tomorrow.

Jim

Jim,, one thing you'll notice if the switch slips down the column,, is that you will have no power to your accessories when the key is turned back. Of course, that's only if it's slipped down far enough. The switch is adjustable.

Definitely one of those times when you hope it isn't something simple,, after you've gone to the trouble of checking every other possibility.

Jim, Did you ever find out what the problem was on this issue. Was just wondering, John

Problem solved!!!!!.... It only took two years for me to get around working on this again and I started from scratch. Turns out that the "new" TFI unit and/or stator that I had purchased was bad. Although they would pass all the tests, there was still no spark. I just decided to start replacing the most difficult parts to check. With a new, new TFI unit and stator in the distributor I got spark. Dump a little gas down the carb and there were signs of life. After a few minutes it was running good.

That is quite a story. I am glad you held onto the van. Another Econoline highway bound. I felt the pain of your electrical situation. For most of us electrical problems can become a nightmare on elm street.