Newb here, saying hello, and I have a few??
I've really needed a van for quite a few years. Just was making due trying to use my late model Bronco project as one, but it really doesn't have nearly the interior space I need.

So, after looking into them after hours and hours of internet research, I've decided a 68' to 74' 123.5" wheelbase Club Wagon with the Chateau package is exactly the beauty I'm after. Preferably green on white exterior, with a green interior. I've got a lot of previous experience working on late 60's and very early 70's musclecars, so these should be just as fun, and easy. I've spent the last decade or so trying to have fun with later model machines, and after a big re-evaluation of my priorities in this past year I've decided we are going back to oldschool rolling art all the way.

The question, just how hard is it at this point to find the Chateau interior in a salvage yard van???? Basically, how much focus do I need to put on any van I might buy having the interior I want to begin with? I am still saving to have funds to buy something, but have already found one van that has my second color choice interior in tan, but the darn van has rust, so I'm like damn do I still need to really consider still trying to get this particular (or for future reference) van, almost just for the interior to swap over to another solid body.

As well, is it fairly easy to ad the AC and High Output heater, to a van not originally equiped with one? And I'm assuming these parts are a touch easier to come by than the Chateau interior.

And I did spot the one guys cherry (green on white Chateau Club) van that is now on ebay and craigslist. That is my dream van right there, I just don't have any funds yet (timing). Litterally, if I could go back in time and order a new one, that is it. With the small possible exception of my having one like that, but also 4wd. I'm planning to within a few years move to the Pacific NW, so the 4wd may come into the picture, but I'm very capable mechanically so I'm just going to focus on getting the right Club van now, and if I need to do a 4wd conversion later, we'll cross that bridge when we get there.

Anywho, glad to have joined. I've been a member in quite a few other various hobby discussion forums for years. So I know how great these clubs can be. I'm also as of recently, getting back into motocross. Specifically vintage MX, so a van could and will certainly come in super handy there. I love the idea of not only being able to safely and comforably haul my older folks around to outings, in classic style, but also turn around and haul toys or camping goodies, or whatever (me & my dog), and have everything nice and safe and sound out of the elements inside a killer van. Especially going up to a wetter part of the country like I'm planning. Everything will be staying dry as apposed to riding in the back of a truck.

So, I'd love some input on the interior, etc. Any and all input greatly appreciated,

Laurence

PS: Oh, and I while I will be after a longer wheelbase van, I will actually only need one setup with a single bench seat right behind the front seats. Still want the good open space behind.

Hello and welcome.

I do see these vans from time to time at the wreckers, including the occassional Chateau. However, by the time they're in that state, the interiors are usually pretty thrashed. A lot of the time, I'll find a Chateau that has ended up as a work van for someone as its last stop before ending up in the boneyard.

I'd suggest biding my time and saving money to get the right van the first time. In general, I'd go so far as to say that one that has a good body will likely have also a well preserved interior; the kind of previous owner that takes care of one aspect usually also takes care of the other.

I have a Chateau, and I love it, though it's a bit of a white elephant. I want to customize the interior for camping practicality, but I don't want to cut or drill holes in my original upholstery and panels. So, I have to remove some of the interior bits anyway, and make my own stuff that's not sacred and that I can hack a bit in good conscience. So, having said that, I wouldn't rule out a good window van just because it isn't a Chateau. Part of the appeal of a regular van is the freedom to do what you want inside.

Adding a high output heater is dead simple, about a 1 hour job. AC is much more involved - there's a comphrensive thread with pictures on this site that you can consult - a search should turn it up for you.

Best of luck finding a suitable candidate in any case.

Marlon

Welcome, Laurence! I'm new here too, and am overjoyed to find a site dedicated to my favorite van, the 2nd generation Econoline (I know, other years are welcome too, but there's a preponderance of 2nd gens here). I grew up in a 72 E-100 Window Van which my dad had built into a camper, and just a couple days ago bought a 74 E-300 Chateau so my kids will have some great van memories too. I'm glad you saw Grant's van for sale; it appears to be just what you want, so maybe you can work something out with him to pay in installments, or whatever. I think it's best to pay more for a nice one to begin with rather than trying to scrounge around for parts. Besides, these vans are scarce as heck!! If you wanted a pickup, it'd be easy to find half a dozen in your own county, but vans? No way. So if you find a good one, try to get it. Good luck!

I should add too that if you want to do a 4wd conversion, this is the worst van you could choose. It has an offset drive train and it is ultra wide. You would have to have a custom differential made and that would be big money. You would also have to replace the steering box. And since there is no frame you would have even more issues. It would be a very involved endevor.

Clayton

Which is exactly why if you find a good deal on a quigley or pathfinder mid ford, get it while there still around.

Hello guys, and thanks much for the warm welcome.

Yes, I definetly saw Grant's van. Aswell, he was nice enough to even offer me the opportunity to make payments. Unfortunately, I'm in a very tough situation as far as having funds currently available, and funds coming in on any specific time table. It's a bit embarrasing but, I'm currently home recovering from some very serious auto accident injuries, and have been told by my doctors that I am permemantly dissabled. I'm working hard towards this not being the case, but for now it is. I'm dealing with the battle of trying to get dissability, and at the same time trying to recover further so I can go back to work asap. I'll have money coming back in one way or another, it's just a little tough to say when. Understandably, that is really up in the air, and to much so for Grants sales time table. When I see his van I definetly have those thoughts of it's the one, no question there, just wrong timing. In two months, or three, or six, who knows, it might have been in my permenant care. I just hope it brings the money I feel it deserves.

So, while my income situation is definetly way up in the air currently, I do have a bunch of different performance parts from both a truck and car project, I no longer need. These could generate sufficient funds to get me into a van, though I'll have to get real lucky (real real lucky) for it to be on par with Grant's little time capsule. I do completely agree though, that these are more than scarce enough in that condition, that it absolutely makes sense to pay more up front. I would imagine, I may litterally not even be able to duplicate that particular van, as it will all be dependent on piecing together a Chateau interior out of matching colored individual parts, which may prove impossible.

I've got a line on another one that has the Chateau interior all in tan, but the van looks rusty, and I'd have to pay perhaps as much or more than the cost of the van, just to get it shipped to me. I'm just going to take it easy, and nice and slow. As soon as I'm up for dealing with selling off the items I have to generate some funds, then I will do so. And whatever happens after that, I'll just roll with it.

On the 4wd possibility, there may very well be a need for me to have one that is 4wd in just a couple/few years. Now how custom are these parts to make one a 4wd???? I wouldn't think it would be that big a deal to convert one. Just a matter of selecting the correct front axle with the diff offset to the drivers side, and then deciding how you want to suspend it. And perhaps fabbing a little subframe to give strong mounting points, and rigidity to the front of the body. Might even be able to take an early F series 4wd rolling chassis and lop the back section off, and box the whole remaining section and slide it under the van. Or, just duplicate everything as done on the original conversions. I mean, I'm pretty stuck on it being a Club Wagon, so how many of those were converted to 4wd originally???? I don't think I've spotted one picture yet. So what makes these harder to convert to 4wd than anything else???? I'd think it's just a matter of selecting the right parts, that will work together.

Thanks again, I'm real excited even just knowing I've got a classic Ford Club Wagon in my, hopefully somewhat immediate future. Really looking forward to it, as it's way overdue.

No



You would be best in buying a Chateau Original and then buying a Qvan and just swapping drive trains.

Gotcha, thanks.

""On the 4wd possibility, there may very well be a need for me to have one that is 4wd in just a couple/few years. Now how custom are these parts to make one a 4wd???? I wouldn't think it would be that big a deal to convert one. Just a matter of selecting the correct front axle with the diff offset to the drivers side, and then deciding how you want to suspend it. And perhaps fabbing a little subframe to give strong mounting points, and rigidity to the front of the body. Might even be able to take an early F series 4wd rolling chassis and lop the back section off, and box the whole remaining section and slide it under the van. Or, just duplicate everything as done on the original conversions. I mean, I'm pretty stuck on it being a Club Wagon, so how many of those were converted to 4wd originally???? I don't think I've spotted one picture yet. So what makes these harder to convert to 4wd than anything else???? I'd think it's just a matter of selecting the right parts, that will work together."


Not that simple. The drive train is offset.....about 6 inches. Just look at your rear diff you can see the off set. The front differentials pumpkin has to be close to the center of the drive line as you should keep the drive line parralel. Look at the front diff in the Quadra Vans. Plus the front diff is wider than that of a pick-up truck. Again measure a Quadra Van. I think the wheel mounting surface on my 1972 E200 is 71 inches and my F150 is 65. F350 is 69. So getting a front diff from another truck will be out of the question. And don't use wheel spacers. You need to get a front diff from a parts truck and have the passenger side extended (this will give you the length and offset). And then you will have to set it up to work with the existing coil springs, radious arms, and all that stuff. Leaf springs won't work as the front of the van is short. Steering in this van is a push pull action and you need a box that will have a side to side action, you will need the steering components off the parts truck to make this work. If you want to do a conversion I would recomend a 1975 and newer Econoline.

The idea of mounting another chasis under a 69-74 Ford van does not work. Someone on this board tried this and they quietly went away.

This all being said, I have been toying around with the idea of doing this and have a good portion of the parts needed. But everying I do has to be reversable and look like it came from the factory that way.

Keep us posted on what you choose.

Clayton

Thanks much for the added details/info.

I guess my not having a van in front of me is allowing me to miss something. Generally, for swapping I'd think an axle with a total width measurment within 2 inches would be more than close enough. With any needed or preferred change in the front track width able to easily be adjusted at the time of wheel selection by choosing the back space you want for the wheels as you prefer. As you normally would to locate the wheel within the wheel well where you want it. I've had Rally wheels for Mopars I've owned in the past widened very cheaply, and my decision on how much to widen could have been on either the front or backside or both had I chosen. So I'm totally missing how an axle within 2 inches of exactly perfect width, could not still easily be used with a tiny bit of compensation within the wheel backspace/offset. I fully recognise as well the effects of having a wheel with different offsets, affects where the wheel travels through it's turning radias within the space of the wheel well. So naturally an axle to wide, would probably be easier to compensate for with wheels, than the other way around which would have more swing then on the outer part of the tire. Possibly touching the body at full lock, when turned either way.

The other point that I'm as well totally missing, is on the drivetrain offset to the passenger side. I mean I know it is, but so is my Bronco, and I think all of the Mopar musclecars I've owned in the past. Many vehicles have the drivetrain offset to the passenger side. As well, so is the front diff on every front axle I've seen under a passenger 4wd. I mean, they are either offset to the drivers side, or the passenger side. I've seen GM 4wd vans built with litterally both, because clearly either the offset is so small or there is none and it's centered in that application. Clearly on these vans, the drivetrain is taking up space towards the passenger side, so the selection is simply going to be a front axle with the diff on the drivers side. Is the issue here, that all the front axles with the diff on the left side already, still don't have it in the correct location for these vans???? And might that be subject to which transfercase is in use, as to whether that's any issue or not????

I hear ya on the no leafs up front part. Clearly the front on these vans is as short as it gets. So, if a guy built one with leafs out front obviously there's going to be quite a bit of frame sticking out. More than a custom winch bumper could easily hide, forsure. I get that. Though I've seen many extended wheelbase Jeeps with the frames sticking way out, but occasionally very tastefully built winch bumpers are making it not look quite so obvious to the unknowing, or quite so bad in appearance.

So is this situation a case where to use any truck chassis, on top of it clearly having to be a coil front suspension, even though the drivetrain might be offset to the passenger side as on many vehicles, it's not enough offset???? Is that the deal? As well, last time I did a national craigslist search for these vans, there is a van on the right side of the country (forget specifically where), and the seller is claiming the van is sitting on an older F series 4wd chassis. No good pics in the ad, but clearly in the side shot pic the wheelbase is matching up very closely with the 123.5" van wheelbase. I don't know my F series truck wheelbases off the top of my head, but I took the ad as a positive atleast showing it could be done. Who knows though, if the issue to why your saying the truck chassis or suspension, or even just front axle can't be used is because while both the mid Ford vans and the F series trucks both have the drivetrains offset to the pasenger side, but it's not the same offset and can't be interchanged.

Anywho, it's easier for me to think about, than to type and describe. Any more clarrification possible? Cuz I still don't get the unique issue in this application. These vans aren't the only vehicles with the engine/trans offset to the passenger side.

Thanks, I'll get it sooner or later, I hope.

wow you guys could type ... carry on

Yessir, teach ed meself howtah bouts ten years back. Comes in handy in this here, new fangled in ter net game. Able to atleast make attempts (key word, attempts) at communication, in a Jiffy.



Hey, on another note regarding my, in the future, possibly needing a 2nd Gen that is 4wd. The one I referenced as having spotted on craigslist, where the owner claims it is on an older F series 4wd chassis. I think it might have just popped up on egay, I mean bay. I have the thing setup to auto notify of keyword matches, and thought a primered black one looked familiar as the same animal. Spaced copying the webpage addy, before deleting, but shouldn't be to hard to find.

Also, different thought, can an Econoline easily be fitted with the additional glass, and then interior, to be converted to a Club Wagon???? Or is the body structureally different on the inside? Might open up another option.



And sorry for typing so much, though it's true, that it is sometimes all in the details. I do occasionally get carried away on fun stuff (very rare).

The body is the same.You're not going to find a mind Quigley 4x4 van.They didn't start until 1978 or 1979.The mids aren't the best 4x4 platforms since they don't have a frame.The Pathfinder conversion is basicly a bread box on a coaster.Your best bet is to get a 4x2 mid and a 1975-1979 Quadravan and drive the 4x4 when you need it.I have two 4x4 Chateau wagons.

Dang, Hoof! Those are some pretty vans!! (sorry for the pink emoticon, but I love those vans! Pics of the rest of them, please!!).

Tuffclub, in response to your question about converting an Econoline to a Chateau (by adding windows), I believe structurally they are identical. In fact, that wouldn't necessarily be required if you found a regular Econoline Window Van, which is identical to a Club Wagon except for the interior. My dad ordered one of those new back in 71, and it was an E-100 cargo van with windows everywhere. He built it into a camper. So you could just find one of those if possible and you wouldn't need to add the windows yourself.

There are some 4WD conversions of the mid vans, and some on this site have them. Maybe you've already checked out those threads in that section of this forum. So some company did make the conversion, despite the fact those vans don't have a separate frame. I know basically nothing of the mechanical side of what's required, but these mid vans did have full ladder frames, just with the body welded onto them, so structurally they should be pretty sturdy. I guess a true separate full frame is easier to work with? Hoof's idea of getting two vans might work too, who knows.

Here's a nice van for sale with all new parts for your own Monster Truck 4WD van craving, only it's a newer model than the mids. I probably would have bought it already but I love the mid vans' looks far too much, plus it doesn't have the windows I like.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAP...em=330361435973

Adding windows to a cargo van to make them the same as a window van would be a big huge job. One member did it here , and did a great job if it, but it's no small task.

However, as Mike sasy, an Econoline Window van IS structurally identical to a Clubwagon, so adding an interior to a good Econo window van would be a perfect fit.

Wow, really dig the silver with blue. That works pretty well. The other thing that is certainly something I can't overlook, is how cheap the 4wd 75' and up vans can be had. That, and big blocks fit real easy (since some came with them).

I suppose that is or could be an option down the road, possibly.

Still real stuck on these 2nd Gen Ford vans though, and so far I kinda only like the later model in 4wd and lifted real high with big tires on 10 to 12" wide wheels. Just the only way that snout and the body lines start looking ok to me. Kind of like how alot of vehicles start looking better with the right/nice big wheels/tires, and the right stance.

What makes you think that your aging parents want to be riding around in a mid in the first place? Maybe they do not share your nostagic views on this. What makes you think that they want to be braving a cold blizzard in a Mid with less than comfortable seats, heater, or security? Seems a little brazen to me. Yes, they probably once drove cars like this but I bet they were not doing it at their current age, but they would have done it at your age. Unless you buy a well kept, original Mid and then have it completely rebuilt, and even then, I would NEVER take my parents out in it during the winter, it just can't be counted on. I drove my mother in law to pick her up a bed and she told my wife that she was scared that we were going to break down. She hated the lap belt because it made her uncomfortable around corners. She will never get in my van again.

With all of the ideas that you are kicking around in your head, you are looking at thousands and thousands of dollars. Why not buy a senseable vehicle for your parental transport and then pick up a van that you can build as you want, when you want.

Honestly, you sound like a son that has all of the best intentions. my grandma used to say,"Don't let good intentions bite you in the ass."

I wouldn't take my old parents or an old mid out in winter.A 1975+ Quadravan would be a lot better to deal with the winter weather and salt then a mid would be.There are still a lot of 1975+ Quadravans around compard to the mids.I've only seen one mid window van Quadravan for sale and it was over priced at $6,000 for what you got.

I have six 1978-1979 Quadravans.Five have the factory 460s and one has the 351W.Pathfinder wanted the 460s so there are a lot of them out there.

Edited version, from my original too lengthy response/reply.

Concerns duely noted. Not brazen, folks have ridden in almost all the vehicles I've owned, and they appreciate certain vintage vehicles as well. Not to nearly my level. Your concerns, are a non issue, unless I were to be driving a total jalopy. Of which I have no intentions of. Even if I get one that is a total project vehicle, and real tired, or even missing an interior to begin with, my obsession is more than strong enough to mean I will remedy any shortcomings fairly quickly. Plus, I will still have my late model Bronco, until I have a cherry van. Then, the late model Bronco is going to be sold to make way for an early Bronco. I'm going all vintage, and it will work out not just fine, but great.

Wow, that was dramatically and long .

I'd say just get a van that suits your taste and build it the way you want to please your self..... cause I am.

Interior is no problem, usually around $2k will do the trick to have it done and whallah, problem solved.

The inference that I would do anything to put my folks in harms way, or "take them out in a blizzard" with no or poor heat or whatever, was a button pusher. Considering how far from any reality that actually is.

I agree, and I intend to do just that, thanks.

Will 2k get a person a reproduction Chateau interior, or is that for a custom jobber????

That's a fully custom one mate

Ahh, that's what I figured. Must look nice.

Relax man, the only reason I said Blizzard was because I couldn't remember how to spell Tsunami. I actually had more questions but you answered them in chapter 3 of your last post, thanks for that. If you go back and reread my post with the sense of a question involved, not a challenge, or an accusation, you may see that I was not being maliscous, but inquisitive.

I am in an industry that uses alot of fabrics and I have yet to find a vinyl houndstooth that is comparative to our original interiors, and if one did find it, I am sure it would cost a fortune. The interior to basically to tone and could easily be reproduced using a houndstoth out of a cotton or other type fabric. The vinyl is readily available. If you are able to do the recovering yourself, you can always have it sewn together which will save you time and money.

I am currently working on finding fabric for a van owner that has a pop top. The guy is looking for the exact replacement fabric but I can not find it. Once we find something he will live with, I am going to make him up a new top.



Good luck, don't take things I say too deep, you will notice that my posts are peppered with sarcasm, ignorance and sour humor.


P.S. Take a look at EMIEVEL's Q van in the for sale section, it is rough but the price is right.

Sorry for the novel, man. I've always tended to get a little long winded, on certain topics, and it has been magnified times ten in recent months with all the HD pain meds the docs have me on. I re-read your post quite a few times. Really couldn't read it in any way that didn't seem to come from someone making wrong assumptions, and running with a train of thought based on inaccuracies. No matter how many times I read it, trying to put myself in the use of those words, it all kept coming out the same (provocative). Definetly made me feel the need to defend my interests in a mid Ford van, and more importantly the future treatment of my parents. As well, as the need to clarify the reality of my parents opinions and views, and the differences of those when compared to out of left field assumptions by someone who they and I don't know from a crack in the sidewalk. Especially, when I think about all I've done for my parents, and them for me, and how much I care about them. Which in this world, is not as common as it should be. Hey, atleast I'm thinking about them, and taking the time to drive my folks to different outings. Even if you view driving them in an old model van as some kind of miss-treatment. I know many guys who never have that thought even cross their minds. Could be worse, I could have said I was planning to take them to doctors appointments on the back of a barely running motorcycle, and in your imaginary blizzard or tsunami. Or ride them there in a side-hack bmx bike from the 80's with flat tires, bent rims, and no seats. Additionaly, I can type fast when I feel the need .

As the youngens say, "It's all good, ahiet" .



Thanks for the other info. I didn't think that band of houndstooth on the panels was vinyl anways, but I haven't exactly seen some in person yet either. I thought from pics, it looked similar to some of the higher option musclecar interior panels I've seen. Where if there is a fabric band or area it is a polyester or something somewhat soft. Like the center of the seats with the houndstooth. Vinyl out to the sides, softer fabric in houndstooth in the center. I'll have to stare at some Chateau panel pics some more, as I'd be extremely curious to see how close somebody could either duplicate the original patterns, or come up with something that if you didn't know better looked OE. That would be my goal. Ultra OE appearance in the interior.


Sounds interesting, working on the pop top.

Your other comments have been added to your permenant record file I have started for you, and I will be sure to go take a look at the van you mentioned. Thanks, I appreciate that pointer.

Later

PS: I was joking about your comments being added to a permenant record file on you, the file won't be permenant. If there are no other infractions, the file drops off after 7 years. Haha, see ya..........

ok, apology accepted! Hahaha.
You know what, I reread my post a couple times, ok once and I am truly offended by it too. Bygones.

Don't quote me on the material of the houndstooth because I have merely seen interiors in local junkyards and in passing, appeared to be a vinyl coated fabric of sorts. One thing you mentioned was taking a cargo van and cutting in stock windows. To my knowledge, and someone here can confirm or correct, the rubber seals for the windows are not available. The wing vent window seals are barely available. In the Chateau, there is an internal fiberglass insert that goes around the van in sections. I have seen complete Chateaus with that in it. I have seen Chateaus with the factory wall ac, as well as with the under seat whatever. I have seen complete interiors but all of them have had at least some damage to them.

Anything is possible, man. I just think that starting from scratch is going to be an impossible climb. I know what it feels like to want one for so long and not have one. It was 3 years for me and then Econodave made it possible. Blah, blah, blah.

I apologize for treading on you. I really never... Ok, yeah, I was stirring the pot a little, didn't know it was actually gonna run as deep as it did.

Soooo, it continues to seem that I am really going to have to get my hands on a van that already came with the Chateau interior as OE. Unless I decide to just go custom, not the package, but rather one off custom.

I really am pretty stuck on the Chateau interior, but realizing the condition so many are in at this age. I feel I need to start preparing for some real work in even just repairing or restoring of one even in a van originally equiped. Hence my other thread about the panels.

I figure there are more than enough little details about how those interiors were installed originally, that I coudn't likely duplicate that and install one that was pieced together from numerous different parts vans, and have it go together right. Maybe I could, I don't know.

Reading the one guy with that 72' Club Wagon in the for sale section, in another thread talking about ripping it all out, one blows my mind, and two made me think, wow, all the little clips or fasteners and stuff could be hard to perhaps get right on a van never originally equiped with it to begin with.

I just don't know, I mean my financial situation could certainly make a big turn around in a few months, but based on right now I just don't think I'll be able to afford getting a cherry survivor soon. Hence all the thinking of coming at the same end result, from building one. The plus of building one is it gives me a little more liberty to go custom in some other areas, where with a great condition original, I'd just want to preserve and protect the darn thing. Oh, well........it'll work out one way or another.

Just can't wait. Gonna be pretty cool. My own little time machine, and immediately useable fun tool to. I really should have been here years ago. Wish I would have come to the realization sooner. I could have likely gotten a mint survivor on the cheap. Now people are starting to consider them something special.

I don't know if you guys have seen this van so her you go.

http://phoenix.craigslist.org/cph/cto/1391596358.html

Yes, thanks much vanner2, I have already been in contact with the owner. It is not looking very likely that I will be able to get my hands on that van due to my personaly finances/timing. Though it would perhaps be ideal for my needs. I still need to confirm I don't actually need a 1 ton specifically. But that van would rock, that's forsure. I am watching the possible sale of that van closely, and the owner has expressed interest in me being it's next owner, but the timing again just doesn't look right. If he doesn't sell it shortly, then perhaps, small chance in my mind, we might be able to come to some agreement. Who knows, but I'm expecting and preparing to have to save one that is in need of a bit of love and restoration.